Special Agent M. A. Platt, NCIS, was called as a witness by the prosecution, was sworn, and testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

Questions by Captain Hur:

Q. Special Agent Platt, please state your full name for the record.

A. My name is Mark Allen Platt.

Q. What is your current occupation?

A. I am a special agent with the Naval Criminal Investigative Service.

Q. And how long have you been employed with them?

A. Approximately six and a half years.

Q. And what sort of tasks do you currently do with NCIS?

A. I am a foreign counter-intelligence agent based out of Washington D.C.

Q. Do you have any law enforcement roles that you conduct in your employment with NCIS?

A. Typically, yes. But in the current billet that I occupy right now, there is no crime scene or law enforcement function.

Q. What law enforcement functions have you conducted with NCIS in the past?

A. I started my career as a special agent here at Camp Pendleton for two years. I was part of our major case response team, which is our crime scene team. I also served as a violent crimes investigator and a narcotics investigator during that tour.

From there, I transferred to our overseas office in the Middle East in Bahrain where I served as the team leader for our major case response team. I conducted criminal investigations in the Middle East. That would include Central Asia, Middle East, East Africa.

After that, I moved on to Washington D.C. where, in the current billet, again, I don't have -- based on the nature of the investigations that we conduct in my current unit, there is no real criminal function.

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Q. With regards to crime scene investigations, have you ever done any crime scene investigations with entities other than NCIS?

A. Yes, I have.

Q. What are those entities?

A. First job out of graduate school, I was a death investigator for the Mericopa County Medical Examiner's office in Phoenix, Arizona.

Q. Any other jobs?

A. I served an internship with the Philadelphia Medical Examiner's office as an undergraduate in college.

Q. Any other employment experience with crime scene investigations?

A. No.

Q. What about specialized training and education with regard to crime scene investigations?

A. I have a Bachelors Degree in Criminal Justice from Westchester University in Westchester, Pennsylvania. Again, while I was an undergraduate student, I served a 12-week internship with the Philadelphia Medical Examiner's office where I assisted in processing of death scenes. Following my undergraduate studies, I attended George Washington University in Washington D.C. where I earned a Masters Degree in Forensic Science. During my tenure as a graduate student, I performed an internship with the Naval Criminal Investigative Service death investigations unit for approximately nine months.

Q. Yes. Now, do you know the accused, Lance Corporal

Justin L. Sharrat?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. If I were to ask you to identify him today, would you please.

The witness identified the accused.

Questions by Captain Hur continued:

Q. Are you aware of why we're here today?

A. I am.

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Q. What is your understanding?

A. This hearing is to determine if there is enough evidence to go forward with the court-martial of Lance Corporal Sharratt based on his involvement in the activities in Haditha, Iraq on 19 November 2005.

Q. Now, with regards to your involvement in that investigation with regards to Lance Corporal Sharratt, when did you first become involved?

A. I was scheduled to deploy to Iraq in the latter part of March on an unrelated mission. I received a call from our headquarters about ten days before my scheduled deployment. They asked if I would deploy early to participate in this investigation. At the time, I had very little detail of what had occurred. I said, Okay, no problem, and deployed early. I arrived in Haditha on or about 23 March. I don't remember exactly.

Q. Before arriving out to the scene in Haditha, what had you been briefed about the case?

A. Again, very little. There was a telephone call that I received that basically stated there is a Marine convoy that was attacked, and subsequent action by the Marine unit resulted in the death of a number of Iraqi civilians. That was about the extent of the brief that I had before I deployed.

Q. So would it be fair to say when you got out to the scene at Haditha you didn't have any preconceived notions one way or the other if a crime had taken place or not?

A. That is correct. I knew very little about the incident.

Q. So you are at the scene at Haditha. What is the first action that you take with regards to beginning your investigation in this case?

A. Upon arrival, I was briefed by Special Agent Mannle as to the facts that were known to that point. And the first investigative step that I participated in was I was the secondary in an interview of Lance Corporal Sharratt where he was asked questions regarding his training prior to the deployment and the laws of armed conflict, positively identifying targets.

Q. Was there anything else that that interview discussed?

A. No. That interview was strictly based on a questionnaire that was produced by the Army during the course of their administrative investigation of this incident. That particular interview was solely to answer the questions presented by the Army.

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Q. I understand. And you said it had to do with training as opposed to his actions that day on 19 November?

A. That's correct. We didn't get into his actions on 19 November whatsoever.

Q. Do you recall where that interview with Lance Corporal Sharratt took place?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Where did it take place?

A. It was in the room that was currently being occupied by Special Agent Mannle, which I believe was on the third deck of the dam.

Q. Do you recall who was present during that interview?

A. Yes, I do. It was myself, Special Agent Mannle, and Lance Corporal Sharratt.

Q. How big was that interview room?

A. About the size of this room here, possibly a little smaller.

Q. With just three people present?

A. Correct.

Q. Was anybody armed during this interview to the best of your recollection?

A. No, I don't believe anybody was.

IO: Captain, why don't you estimate the size of this room. He said it is the size of the room, so why don't you put the dimensions in for the record.

TC[Capt Hur]: May the government get back to the IO with the

dimensions of this room, sir?

Questions by Captain Hur continued:

Q. Would you say the dimensions of this room would be abouts 20 feet by 20 feet?

A. That is pretty close, yes.

Q. Thank you, Agent Platt. Continuing on, would you describe your interview with Lance Corporal Sharratt confrontational or non-confrontational?

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A. Very non-confrontational.

Q. If I were to mention the phrases "interview" and "interrogation," would you know what I'm talking about?

A. Yes, I would.

Q. Is there a difference between the two?

A. Sure.

Q. What is the difference between the two words?

A. Interrogation basically is where you are trying to elicit incriminating information from an individual where as I would describe an interview as more of a person who is a witness that was not involved in any sort of criminal activity.

Q. And was your -- we described it as an interview with Lance Corporal Sharratt. Was it more of an interview or interrogation?

A. In this case, although he was advised to his rights prior to, this was more of an interview. It had nothing to do with the incident that was being investigated. It had more to do with his training.

Q. I know you don't have the statement in front of you right now, but do you recall the rights you advised Lance Corporal Sharrat?

A. I don't recall for sure, but I believe he was advised for a LOAC violation.

Q. Was that because that was all you suspected at the time?

A. At the time. That was very early on in the investigation. That is what was suspected.

Q. How long did this interview take place?

A. I don't recall exactly. But if I had to guess, I would say in the neighborhood of an hour and a half to two hours.

Q. So it wasn't very long?

A. No, it wasn't long.

Q. Were there any breaks in the interview that you remember?

A. I remember one break where Lance Corporal Sharratt stepped out on the balcony and had a cigarette. I don't know if we took a formal break during the interview.

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However, he asked if he could smoke a cigarette; and we allowed him to do so.

Q. Any other breaks that you remember?

A. None that I recall.

Q. After the interview with Lance Corporal Sharratt, did you interview anybody else out at the dam?

A. On that day, no, I did not.

Q. What about in the days following?

A. I returned to the dam approximately ten days to two weeks later --

Q. Let my interrupt you. You say you returned to the dam. Where did you go in between?

A. I moved over to Fallujah, which is where my permanent temporary duty assignment was going to be when I was based in Iraq. So I left the dam to get established there and check in with Seal Team 3, who I was assigned to for my deployment in Iraq. I checked in with them and then returned to the dam to do some follow-up interviews.

Q. So when you returned to the dam to do follow-up interviews, who did you interview?

A. I ended up going out to the forward operation base, which was identified as Sparta at the time. From there, I went out to the City of Haditha and interviewed two of the women who were present. And their husbands were killed in the house that we designated as house four on 19 November.

Q. And we will discuss that. Before I do, if you were to mention interviews taking place in the basement of the dam, would you know what I am talking about?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Did you conduct any interviews in the basement of the dam?

A. No, I did not.

Q. Why not?

A. Those interviews were conducted prior to my arrival at the dam.

Q. Do you know why you didn't conduct any interviews down there and continue using that area?

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A. I believe those spaces were being used. When I conducted the interview with Special Agent Mannle of Lance Corporal Sharratt, I believe they were using those spaces. At the time, the RIP, or the exchange of battalions, was going on. So there was an excess of personnel. We were using every space that was made available to us, which is why we conducted the interview of Lance Corporal Sharratt in Special Agent Mannle's room.

Q. Would it be fair to say conditions were pretty crowded when these interviews were going on?

A. That's correct.

Q. Your next investigative action after the Lance Corporal Sharratt interview, you say you went out to the scene of where the deaths took place?

A. That is correct.

Q. Just limiting our discussion to the Lance Corporal Sharratt case, did you make it up to the house where Lance Corporal Sharratt's actions took place in?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. Describe your role at that destination.

A. My role was to provide assistance in the preservation and collection of evidence. At that scene, my focus, along with Special Agent Tom Brady and Special Agent Mike Maloney, who are our forensic consultants that were deployed, was specifically focused on the bedroom where the four Iraqi males were killed in house four.

Q. Who was in charge of that investigation?

A. Primarily Special Agent Maloney and Special Agent Brady.

Q. Why was that?

A. They had far superior experience and tenure with NCIS.

Q. Now, are you aware that a forensic report was created as a result of this evidence gathering?

A. Yes, I am.

Q. Do you know who authored that report?

A. I believe it was authored by Special Agent Maloney.

Q. Have you ever looked at this report?

A. I have not.

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Q. Do you have any knowledge of what is actually in the report?

A. No, I do not.

Q. So what are your personal observations when you entered that back bedroom in house four?

A. Prior to our arrival at house four, we had no photographs from that house. The previous team of NCIS agents that had deployed out into that area, for whatever reason, the photographs that they took at house four somehow were compromised. So they had nothing; nothing on the outside, nothing on the inside, nothing of the area adjacent to house four. So we made the determination that we were going to go to house four first, being that we had nothing from that house.

Q. Do you remember what approximate day and month this was?

A. Right at the end of March. It was probably around 28, 29 March.

Q. So you entered the back bedroom. What do you see?

A. I was very surprised. You could clearly see what we believed were bloodstain patterns on the wall with the naked eye.

Q. When you say "bloodstain patterns," how did you know it was blood?

A. At the time, did not know. But based on my training and previous experience at death scenes, the stains I saw on the walls were consistent with bloodstain patterns I had seen previously in my career.

Q. So you see the red stains on the wall. What else do you see?

IO: Wait a minute. Were they red still?

WIT[SA Platt]: They had turned a brownish tint. They were not a very bright red. They had obviously degraded over time. The stains were a brownish tint, but clearly visible with the naked eye.

Questions by Captain Hur continued:

Q. You see the stains on the wall. What else do you see?

A. Quick look around the room, we saw several holes in the wall that appeared to be defects caused by projectiles and saw a hole in the window on the south side of the

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room that appeared to have been caused by a projectile. There was a bed in the room, a wheelchair, and a closet along the east wall. And this closet is not like an American-style closet where it is built into the wall. This is actually one that is movable and was actually not a fixed structure within that room. It could be moved.

Q. What about shell casings, did you see any of those?

A. There were no shell casings in the room.

Q. You say you saw holes in the wall that appeared consistent with bullets. Did you gather any evidence with that regard?

A. Yes, we did.

Q. What did you gather?

A. We recovered two projectiles from the walls of that room. One of the projectiles was recovered from the east wall behind the closet. That was recovered when we moved the closet away from the wall. I got in behind the closet and used a utility tool to probe the area around the defect and discovered what appeared to me to be a 5.56 projectile.

Q. Now, you are no ballistics expert. Correct?

A. No, I'm not.

Q. And you didn't do the actual ballistics analysis in this case. Correct?

A. No, I did not.

Q. Do you know who did that?

A. I believe it was performed by the U.S. Army Criminal Investigations Laboratory.

Q. So you grabbed that fragment. Did you grab any other fragments?

A. Yes, we did. After we discovered that one, we moved over to the south wall where we had a similar defect in the wall and probed that region and recovered what appeared to me to be a 9-millimeter projectile from the south wall.

Q. Again, you have no way of knowing whether that was a 9-millimeter fragment or some other fragment?

A. That's correct. I did not know.

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Q. Was any other evidence gathered in that room?

A. Samples of all the major groupings of what we believed to be bloodstains were taken for future DNA analysis.

Q. You had mentioned earlier today that you ended up interviewing some Iraqi witnesses. How did that happen?

A. Again, those interviews occurred after I was initially at the dam. I departed for Fallujah and returned to the dam about a week or ten days later, arranged for these interviews to be conducted. I was escorted from the forward operating base by the Marines to house four where I conducted the interviews in a living room.

Q. How many days after the deaths did these interviews take place, approximately?

A. It was approximately ten days.

Q. Do you recall who you interviewed?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Who did you interview?

A. The first interview I conducted was a young Iraqi female by the name of Ehab.

Q. Who else did you interview?

A. I interviewed her sister-in-law, Nagham.

Q. Was there anybody else you interviewed that day?

A. No, there was not.

Q. Did you interview any other Iraqi witnesses during the

course of this investigation?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. We will discuss those in a moment. With regards to your interviews with Ehab and Nagham, how did the interviews take place?

A. Again, conducted the interviews in the living room of house four. The interviews were conducted in Arabic. I would ask a question in English. It would be translated by the interpreter provided by the Marine Corps. He would ask the Iraqi female the questions I had. She would respond. And he would provide me with the answers to those questions.

Q. Do you recall who else was present during these interviews other than yourself, the witness, and the interpreter?

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A. Yes, the 3/3 legal officer, Captain Josh Girton, was present.

Q. Anybody else?

A. Yes. The lawyer representing some of the victims of the 19 November incident was present. Ehab and Nagham's father-in-law was present in the room. And from time to time, the civil affairs officer from 3/3 was coming and going as the interview was being conducted.

Q. Were Ehab and Nagham both present during each other's respective interviews, or were they separate?

A. They were separate.

Q. Now, when these interviews took place, were you armed?

A. Yes, I was.

Q. With what?

A. I had a 9-millimeter pistol on my right leg, and I had an M4 long arm that I took off and set down on the ground next to me.

Q. Were any of the other coalition troops there armed?

A. Yes. All the Marines were armed.

Q. With rifles?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you recall how long each one of these interviews took

place?

A. I don't recall exactly. But they were probably in the neighborhood of an hour and a half to two hours. The second interview was cut short by some activity going on outside.

Q. Did you see the witnesses Ehab and Nagham discuss each other's testimony before, during, or after your interview with them?

A. No, I did not.

Q. Did you ever hear that they had done so?

A. No, I did not.

Q. Now, in your interview with Ehab and Nagham, were there any inconsistencies between what they told you?

A. There were subtle differences to their statement. But for the most part, their statements were consistent.

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Q. Let's explore the differences. What were they?

A. Differences being that Ehab, on the morning of 19 November, she was sleeping with her husband and was awoken by a loud noise that she believed to be an explosion. After that, the family gathered in the hallway. Ehab and the rest of the family -- no one went outside of the confined courtyard area of houses three and four. They stayed within that area. They were going to have breakfast. Approximately 9:45 -- Ehab recalled that she knew it was 9:45 because she was in the kitchen preparing breakfast at the time when her husband called out to her, The Marines are here, they would like to search the house, and everybody needs to come outside.

All the family members in houses three and four came out into the courtyard area. Again, houses three and four share a common courtyard. And those houses are surrounded by a high cinder block wall.

Once outside, Ehab said there were three Marines present. The Marines had the family members get in two distinct lines. One of the lines was for the women, children, and elderly. The other line was for adult males. Ehab stated that she recalls the Marines asking about a bomb. Ehab advised that the Marines were notified there was one AK-47 in each house, house three and four. Ehab stated that the Marines escorted one of the males -- one of the Iraqi males into each house. And the Marines took custody of the AK-47 assault rifles and brought them back outside. Once outside, Ehab stated the Marines told the women, children, and the elderly to go into house number three. And the adult males were told to go in house number four.

One of the individuals that was initially grouped with the adult males was a young Iraqi boy by the name of Khalaia. He started to go into house four. When he did that, Ehab stated she called out to Khalaia and said, Khalaia, come back. Khalaia came back and joined the group of women, children, and elderly and went into house four. And she stated that the Marines did not object to that.

Ehab stated that two of the Marines took the adult males into house four. All the other family members were ushered into house three by the third Marine who was

Discovery 27 Jul 07 00164

pushing them and pointing his rifle at them. The Marine that took the women and the children and the elderly into house three put them all in the house and closed the door behind them.

IO: I am going to stop you just for a second. The question was asking for differences between the two. And I haven't heard anything about the other person. You have given me a long recitation. I have had the benefit of reading the transcript, and I heard testimony yesterday. What I am hoping you can get to is what were the differences.

WIT[SA Platt]: The differences being Nagham, the other woman I interviewed, she was awake at the time the explosion or the loud noise was heard. Her and her husband were preparing for a trip to Baghdad. So she was awake, whereas Ehab was still sleeping.

Questions by Captain Hur continued:

Q. Were there any inconsistencies in their versions of events?

A. No, they were both pretty consistent.

Q. So just the fact that one was awake and the other was sleeping when the IED went off?

A. That's correct.

IO: That's the only difference?

WIT[SA Platt]: No. There are other subtle differences.

IO: Let him finish answering the differences. That's what I'm interested in.

WIT[SA Platt]: Another difference being is once the men, women, and children were -- before I get to that, there was a subtle difference when it came to when the Marines ordered everybody to sit down in the courtyard. One of the women stated that once all the family members were out in the courtyard, they were ordered to immediately sit down, whereas the other female stated that it was not until after the Marines had escorted two of the men into houses three and four and retrieved the AK-47s and had custody of them. It was after that that the Marines ordered everybody to sit down in the courtyard.

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Questions by Captain Hur continued:

Q. Do you recall who said which version of events?

A. No, I do not.

Q. Would anything refresh your memory?

A. If I saw the statements, I could confirm that.

TC[Capt Hur]: With your permission, sir, may I show the witness Exhibits 35 and 56, previously introduced?

IO: You may.

TC[Capt Hur]: I have here Investigative Exhibit 35 and Investigative Exhibit 36. 35 is the interview with Ehab. And 36 is the interview of Nagham. Would you please review those and refresh your memory.

WIT[SA Platt]: Okay. With regard to that point we were just discussing --

TC[Capt Hur]: Government is grabbing 35 and 36 from the witness and returning it to the government's table. Please continue.

WIT[SA Platt]: With regard to that point that we were just discussing regarding the family members sitting down in the courtyard, Nagham is the one that stated they were ordered to sit down immediately upon getting their entrance into the courtyard. And they were told not to look at the Marines. Ehab stated that it was not until the Marines had control of the AK-47s that they were told to sit down.

Another difference being after the explosion went off, Nagham and her husband Marwan walked from house four to house three. And Nagham observed that the windows in house three had been broken. It was of her opinion that the windows were broken due to the explosion that had occurred.

IO: What did Ehab have to say?

WIT[SA Platt]: Ehab did not ever leave house four until the Marines arrived.

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Questions by Captain Hur continued:

Q. Were there any other differences that you recall now that your memory has been refreshed?

A. The only other difference that I can really recall is Ehab departed the residence, house four, prior to the removal of the deceased, whereas Nagham, I believe, was there throughout the entire process.

Q. Any other differences?

A. Those are all that I can recall.

Q. You mentioned that you had interviewed some other Iraqi witnesses. Who were they?

A. I interviewed an Iraqi male by the name of Yusuf. Yusuf is the brother of the four Iraqi males who were killed in house four.

Q. Was Yusuf an eyewitness to the events that took place that day?

A. No, he wasn't.

Q. He did not actually observe any of the facts that Ehab and Nagham discussed with you?

A. No, he did not.

Q. Did you interview any U. S. Marines or coalition forces later in the investigation?

A. No, I did not. Not relative to this incident, no.

TC[Capt Hur]: That's all for now, sir.

IO: Major Erickson, did the government provide me a IA report on the interview with Yusuf?

CC[Mr. Culp]: I have one, sir.

TC[Maj Erickson]: The government did not provide that.

IO: Is that one of the defense exhibits as well?

CC[Mr. Culp]: It wasn't until today, sir.

IO: So you would like this to be marked as a defense exhibit?

CC[Mr. Culp]: 11c, because all of the interviews are put into

Defense Exhibit 11.

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IO: I am not a big fan of going A, B, C plus numbers. So your last one we have is what?

CC[Mr. Culp]: I believe 53.

IO: All right. We will mark this 54. Any objection to this being marked Defense Exhibit 54?

TC[Maj Erickson]: No objection, sir.

IO: I need a minute to read this. You may examine the witness.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

Questions by Mr. Culp:

Q. Let's go back in time and talk about Agent Mannle and your interactions with Agent Mannle.

A. Okay.

Q. Agent Mannle told you that she interviewed Lance Corporal Sharratt. Correct?

A. I don't recall her telling me that.

Q. You interviewed Lance Corporal Sharratt on 24 March 2006. Do you remember that?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. Agent Mannle didn't tell you that she had conducted an interview with Lance Corporal Sharratt a few days before on 19 March 2006?

A. Yes, she did state that. Yes.

Q. And you are a good investigator?

A. Um-hum.

Q. And you read that statement?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. So you knew when Lance Corporal Sharratt said he entered house four that he confronted a guy -- he was in the hallway and confronted somebody in the doorway of that bedroom. Correct?

A. Yes, I did.

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Q. He had said that?

A. I don't recall exactly what he said in the first statement that he provided. But if it is in the statement taken by Agent Mannle, yes, I did read it.

Q. You knew what his version of events were that day. Correct?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. And you knew that the stories told by the Iraqis that you interviewed were diametrically opposed to his version of events. Correct?

A. That is not correct, because I did not interview the Iraqi witnesses until after I interviewed Lance Corporal Sharratt.

Q. Let's talk about that. You know that there was an interview by Agent Mannle of this family in March. Correct, 29 March?

A. Yes. That interview was conducted on the day where we were processing house four -- the death scene in house four.

Q. Correct. And you read the results of those interviews. Correct?

A. No, I did not.

Q. Is it your testimony that you went out to house four and interviewed Nagham and Ehab on 6 April of 2006 and did not know what these people had told Agent Mannle on 29 March?

A. No. I was aware of what had been told to Agent Mannle. However, I did not read the statement.

Q. Why not? Why wouldn't you do that?

A. Shortly after we processed houses one, two, and four on 29 March, the team initially disbursed. Again, I had to go to Fallujah to check in with the unit that I was in Iraq to support. I returned to Haditha dam later to conduct the interviews that were conducted in April. At the time that we left the dam, I am not even positive that Agent Mannle had prepared that statement yet. If she did, I hadn't read it.

Q. But you knew that Lance Corporal Sharratt said that he had taken a suitcase from house four. Correct?

A. I knew that one of the Marines had removed a suitcase from house four. I did not know specifically which Marine it was.

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CC[Mr. Culp]: Can I have Lance Corporal Sharratt's statement?

Questions by Mr. Culp continued:

Q. You read Lance Corporal Sharratt's statement that he gave on 19 March?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. This is close in time -- you went and interviewed Ehab and Nagham on 6 April. Correct?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. And you know what Lance Corporal Sharratt had said in his statement when you went on 6 April to Haditha?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. And you knew that he said that he had taken a suitcase containing Jordanian passports from the house?

A. I am sure at the time I conducted the interviews of Ehab and Nagham I was well aware of that fact. Here today in this courtroom, I am not sure what Lance Corporal Sharratt's statement said.

Q. If I showed you Lance Corporal Sharratt's statement, would it refresh your recollection as to whether or not you would know on 6 April that he had said he had taken a suitcase from the house?

A. Yes, I would.

CC[Mr. Culp]: Your Honor, can I approach?

IO: I think you are talking about Investigative Exhibit 44, unless there is another one on 19 March.

CC[Mr. Culp]: This is the 19 March statement.

IO: So it is Investigative Exhibit 44.

CC[Mr. Culp]: It's been duplicated. I will just refer to it as Investigative Exhibit 44.

IO: Sure. You can show him a copy of it.

CC[Mr. Culp]: Just look, if you would, right in the middle where my thumb is and just read that paragraph to yourself.

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IO: What page are you on?

CC[Mr. Culp]: 7 of 8, sir.

Questions by Mr. Culp continued:

Q. Did Special Agent Mannle tell you that it had been reported to her in her interviews of 29 March that the family members had confirmed that a suitcase was taken from their home? Did she tell you that?

A. I don't recall exactly what Agent Mannle told me in March of '06. But if that came up during the statement, I am sure I was aware of it at the time.

Q. But when you interviewed Ehab on 6 April 2006, knowing that Lance Corporal Sharratt had said he had taken a suitcase from that house containing Jordanian passports, Ehab told you something about a suitcase, didn't she?

A. Yes, she did.

Q. Why don't you tell the investigating officer what she told you about that suitcase.

A. I believe Ehab's statement was that after the four men were killed in house four, the women moved from house three to house four and saw that the four men were dead. Shortly thereafter, four other Marines arrived at the scene; and Ehab stated these four Marines were different from the initial three Marines who were at house four.

Ehab stated the Marines again ordered the family into the courtyard. Two of the Marines stayed outside. Two went inside the house. One of the Marines removed a suitcase that Ehab stated belonged to her brother-in-law Kahtan.

Q. So Ehab said that the family was broken up into two groups on two different occasions?

A. Well, the second occasion, they weren't broken up into two groups. The Marines again brought them out into a courtyard, and the Marines split up. Two stayed outside, two went into the house.

Q. And those were two different Marines?

A. According to her, yes, they were.

Q. And NCIS has never found this other group of Marines who went to Ehab's house. Is that correct?

A. That is correct.

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Q. Let's talk about that person, Kahtan. Her brother-in-law is Kahtan?

A. I believe that is how you pronounce the name.

Q. Now, you knew on 6 April that Lance Corporal Sharratt said he had taken a suitcase containing Jordanian passports. Fair to say that you were briefed, Hey, we don't know where that briefcase is. Right?

A. That is correct.

Q. You guys didn't think it existed, didn't you?

A. Well, at that point, we had yet to recover those documents.

Q. And it was suspicious to you?

A. Yes, it was.

Q. As a matter of fact, that was one of the things that NCIS thought was a hole in Lance Corporal Sharratt's version of events. Correct? Let me rephrase that.

If Lance Corporal Sharratt had taken a suitcase with Jordanian passports, NCIS was pretty sure it would exist, somebody would have it if that was true?

A. Again, we had not found the documents to that point. And we were actively pursuing them.

Q. Everywhere?

A. To the best of our ability.

Q. Because you thought if you found the suitcase with Jordanian passports, that would corroborate Lance Corporal Sharratt's statement that he had taken the suitcase. Correct?

A. Obviously, it would corroborate his statement, yes.

Q. Furthermore, if there was a suitcase with Jordanian passports in this home, it might call into question the identity of the people in the home?

A. It certainly would.

Q. Jordanian passports, may be insurgent?

A. You could make that stretch.

Q. You would have made that stretch?

A. That was certainly a theory.

Q. What did Ms. Ehab tell you about her brother-in-law Kahtan?

Discovery 27 Jul 07 00172  

A. She stated that he had a job at the Jordanian-Iraqi border. That morning, he was preparing to head out to his job. I believe the city was called Traviel [ph], but I am not exactly sure.

Q. In your interview of Ehab and Nagham, they never reported to you that they had a discussion with Lance Corporal Sharratt about who these men were and where they worked, specifically Kahtan. Correct?

A. One of the women stated the Marines were advised that one of the males was a traffic officer. That is why he had an AK-47. But that is all I believe was discussed.

Q. Okay. As an investigator, did it ever cross your mind -- did the thought ever cross your mind or did the question ever come into your head, how would Lance Corporal Sharratt know that one of these people perhaps worked on the Jordanian border? Did you think he had any of that knowledge?

A. I didn't know.

Q. Okay. So we're on 6 April. Somewhere around 29 March, you read his statement. You knew he said he had taken a suitcase, that it contained Jordanian passports. Correct?

A. Yes, I did.

IO: One second. Did he tell you it had Jordanian passports in it?

WIT[SA Platt]: His statement stated that it had Jordanian passports in it.

IO: Where does it say that? It simply says passports. That's why I want to know where does Jordanian passports get imported into that paragraph. I am only saying that because counsel keep saying Jordanian passports. And I keep reading this and can't find the word "Jordanian" anywhere in that statement. The page you directed me to, the paragraph says, "found three or four passports."

CC[Mr. Culp]: Yes, sir.

IO: What kind of passports are they?

Discovery 27 Jul 07 00173

CC[Mr. Culp]: I am actually incorporating some other statements into that question.

IO: But the question you keep asking this agent, and he keeps adopting, saying that he said Jordanian passports. That is my concern is he is just adopting your phraseology.

Questions by Mr. Culp continued:

Q. You read the statement of Corporal Salinas? Corporal Salinas was one of the three Marines who had gone to house four. Have you read his statement?

A. Which date was the statement taken on?

Q. Did you read the statements that had been given by Corporal Salinas up to that point in time?

A. All the statements that had been taken prior to us going to houses one, two, and four on the 29th of March, I read, yes.

Q. And Corporal Salinas had identified that he had been told they were Jordanian passports?

A. I don't recall exactly which Marine stated they were Jordanian passports. But to the best of my knowledge, that is what we were looking for was Jordanian passports.

Q. Okay. When Ehab stated to you that the suitcase had in fact been taken from that house by a group of Marines, a second group of Marines that you have never been able to find, what, if any, conclusions did you draw in your mind?

A. I didn't really draw any conclusions. That question -- or her statement was based on a response to a question that I had asked. She did not offer that information. I asked that question specifically trying to track down these missing passports.

Q. But this was a pinnacle moment, wouldn't you say, that she told you that Kahtan worked on the Jordanian border and his suitcase had been taken?

A. Certainly, it led me closer to trying to track down the passports.

Q. What did you find out about Mr. Kahtan?

A. I personally did not find out anything about him.

Q. NCIS didn't go to his place of employment near the

Discovery 27 Jul 07 00174

Jordanian border and try to determine what exactly he

did?

A. To my knowledge, I do not know if NCIS went to his place of employment. I personally did not.

Q. Why not?

A. Again, I was in Iraq working with Seal Team 3. My involvement with the Haditha incident was specifically to processing the crime scenes. And then on three additional occasions, I went back to conduct follow-up interviews. I was not privy to all the information that was going on and all the interviews that were being conducted back here at Camp Pendleton and elsewhere. So basically, when I would get a task to do an interview, I was sent a specific list of questions and said, Interview this individual and ask these questions. I did not have a complete knowledge of everything that was going on in the investigation.

CC[Mr. Culp]: Sir, I just want to direct your attention to the Corporal Salinas statement that is Defense Exhibit 4 that was taken on 18 March 2006.

IO: I see it. Is it Investigative Exhibit 48 where it says, Jordanian passports, etcetera?

CC[Mr. Culp]: Yes, sir.

IO: And that is a conversation between Sharratt and Salinas?

CC[Mr. Culp]: Yes, sir.

IO: I just want to make it clear because you kept saying after he looked at that document that they were Jordanian passports. I wanted to know if he had an independent knowledge of that or if he was just -- if you are adopting that, and what happens a lot of times is witnesses just adopt what the counsel say because you are so convincing as you pursue your line of questioning. I think it is clear that Sharratt said there were passports. I just want to make sure it's clear because these things have a way of changing.

CC[Mr. Culp]: Yes, sir.

Questions by Mr. Culp continued:

Q. You conducted an interview, not interrogation, of Lance Corporal Sharratt on 24 March?

Discovery 27 Jul 07 00175

A. Yes, I did.

Q. You went to the crime scene on 28 or 29 March with Special Agent Brady and Special Agent Maloney?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. You went to house four on 6 April and interviewed Ehab and Nagham?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. You went back to house four and interviewed Yusuf on 8 June?

A. Not house four. Yusuf was interviewed at the Haditha hospital.

Q. Wouldn't you consider yourself a key player in this investigation?

A. No, I wouldn't. In the grand scheme of things, there was a lot more work being done back here than what I was doing.

Q. Did you think it was important at the point where Ehab had told you, Yeah, suitcase was taken, and it just coincidentally belonged to the one guy in the house who worked on the Jordanian border. Did it occur to you that somebody needs to follow up on that?

A. At the time, no, it didn't.

Q. Why?

A. To me, it got us one step closer to trying to track down these passports. But at the time I was conducting those interviews I was going off, based on this is who we want you to interview, this is the line of questioning. I didn't know what information existed outside of the statements that I had already read. It wasn't my job. I was not the case agent.

Q. Did you talk to the case agent about this?

A. No, I did not.

Q. Fair to say that this is the last discussion you had with anybody about Jordanian passports and Kahtan working on the Jordanian border?

A. To the best of my recollection, yes.

Q. All right. Let's talk about the father-in-law, the older man, Aiad.

Discovery 27 Jul 07 00176

Aiad was there when you interviewed Ehab and Nagham. Tell the investigating officer what you knew already before 6 April about a hidden third weapon in house four.

A. I didn't know anything about it.

Q. So on 6 April, Agent Mannle had not told you that Aiad, the father, had reported to her that there was a third hidden AK-47 somewhere in house four?

A. On 6 April?

Q. Correct.

A. No. I was not aware of that. And Agent Mannle was not present on 6 April.

Q. Well, Agent Mannle had some interviews on 29 March. Are you telling me that you didn't talk to Agent Mannle before you went and re-interviewed Ehab and Nagham?

A. I am sure I talked to Agent Mannle. I just do not recall hearing anything about a hidden weapon.

Q. So you didn't follow up on the hidden weapon because you didn't know anything?

A. I don't recall it being an issue at the time, no.

Q. Let's talk about the 29 March visit to house four with Agent Brady for a second and Agent Maloney. You went into that room in that bedroom?

A. That is correct.

Q. But not before that house had been cleared by some Marines who were escorting you?

A. That is correct.

Q. Why don't you tell the investigating officer what was found on the roof of that house.

A. I don't recall exactly where it was found, but a magazine that was consistent with a magazine that would go into an AK-47 was discovered.

Q. Who did the family say that magazine had originally belonged to?

A. I do not recall.

Q. Was it suspicious to you that there was an AK-47 magazine on the roof of the house?

A. No, it was not.

Q. Why? Is that where most Iraqis kept their extra ammunition?

Discovery 27 Jul 07 00177

A. Based on the experience I've had in the Middle East and Iraq, in the summer months, many Iraqis sleep out on the roof. Every adult Iraqi male is authorized to have an AK-47. So I did not find it unusual. I do recall seeing the AK-47 magazine, but I didn't pay it much attention after I saw it. I figured the Marines had taken care of it. That was the last I thought of it.

Q. Is it your testimony that no one in house four on 28 and 29 March informed you that that magazine belonged to a weapon that had been hidden in a closet in that bedroom?

A. I know we had asked for the key to the closet. It was initially locked. We had searched the closet looking for any potential weapons, but none were discovered.

Q. The question was: Did anyone in house four tell you that that magazine belonged to a weapon that had been in that closet?

A. I don't recall exactly what I was told about the weapon. I do recall searching the closet looking for a potential weapon.

Q. Who at NCIS would know or have the responsibility of doing background checks on the four men who were in house four?

A. I don't know that it would be an NCIS responsibility. But if you had to pinpoint someone, it would be the case agent.

Q. And that case agent was?

A. Agent Mannle.

Q. You were with Agent Mannle during the questioning of Lance Corporal Sharratt in March?

A. That is correct.

Q. Fair to say you talked to her often?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you ever have a discussion with her along the lines of, Hey, perhaps we need to find out who these guys are, maybe that would shed some light on this investigation?

A. No, we never had that discussion.

Q. Why not?

A. Again, I was in Iraq on another mission. I went to Haditha to fulfill a specific tasking that was sent from NCIS headquarters.

Discovery 27 Jul 07 00178

I did not have all the facts. I did not know anything what was going on back here at Camp Pendleton or with the rest of the investigation. So I would go conduct the interviews, I would write up the statements, send them back to NCIS headquarters, and left it at that.

Q. Nagham also confirmed that there was this alleged separate group of Marines who came, grouped them all together, and went in and got the suitcase?

A. Correct.

Q. So two out of two, Nagham and Ehab both said that?

A. Correct.

Q. And Nagham confirmed that the suitcase taken belonged to Kahtan?

A. I don't recall exactly, but I believe they both stated that it was Kahtan's suitcase.

Q. What steps did you take to determine whether or not the identity of these four other Marines were? What steps did you take?

A. I personally did not take any other steps to identify those Marines.

Q. What discussion did you have with Agent Mannle about the importance of trying to determine whether or not these four other Marines actually existed?

A. I did not have that discussion with Agent Mannle.

Q. Fair to say that if you had done a very thorough investigation and asked all the pertinent Marines whether or not they had ever gone to that house and concluded that there were no separate group of Marines, maybe that would call the Iraqi statements into question?

A. Again, I was there to perform a specific task.

Q. What was the task?

A. I was there to interview Ehab and Nagham that day.

Q. To find evidence to prosecute Lance Corporal Sharratt?

A. No. I was there to document their version of the events.

Q. And that's it?

A. That is correct.

Discovery 27 Jul 07 00179

Q. Not to follow up on anything that was suspicious about any of the interviews?

A. No.

Q. And when you found something suspicious during your interviews, you didn't talk to Agent Mannle about it?

A. No, I did not.

Q. Do you think that was fair to Lance Corporal Sharratt?

A. I don't think it was fair or unfair. I was there. I performed my task. And I moved on. And I got back to the mission I was in Iraq to perform.

Q. If your task was to interview Iraqis and get their version of events, isn't it implicit to that task if you find out something that's suspicious, you probably should, A, follow up on it yourself; or B, at least bring it to the attention of Agent Mannle, the case agent?

A. It was in the report. If she thought it was suspicious, she would have followed up on it.

Q. Did you think that it was suspicious that the suitcase that you couldn't find happened to be confirmed by Ehab and that it belonged to a guy who worked on the Jordanian border? Did you find that suspicious?

A. I thought it was suspicious that these passports that were supposedly seized by the Marines could not be accounted for. I also found it suspicious that the two AK-47s that were also seized by the Marines could not be accounted for.

Q. Let's talk about the AK-47s for a second. Did you ever go to the platoon leader, Lieutenant Kallop and ask him what the turn-in procedures were for his platoon regarding AK-47s?

A. I never had any discussions with Lieutenant Kallop.

Q. Did you know that the wall locker or the outhouse locker at Firm Base Sparta had no lock on it and that Marines were just supposed to throw the AK-47s in there that they found at that time?

A. I had no knowledge of the procedures.

Q. And so you have no knowledge about how the AK-47s would work themselves down to the Haditha dam once every week or two weeks. Correct?

A. Correct. I do not know the procedures of moving the AK-47s from the forward operating areas to the dam.

Discovery 27 Jul 07 00180

Q. If you thought it was suspicious that no AK-47s were attributed directly to Lance Corporal Sharratt, why didn't you follow up on that?

A. I did follow up at the dam on the AK-47s.

Q. And what did you find?

A. I found that no AK-47s were accounted for on the dates surrounding 19 November.

Q. You knew that Corporal Stafford, the armorer, had taken possession of two AK-47s near house one and two? He testified to that. Right?

A. I was not aware of that information.

Q. You knew that nine AK-47s were turned into the Haditha dam in early December?

A. I seized the log that they maintained of the dates and when they seized the weapons. I don't recall exactly which dates weapons were turned in on. All I recall is that there was no weapons turned in on the dates immediately around 19 November.

Q. But you thought it was suspicious that Lance Corporal Sharratt said he had taken AK-47s and none existed, according to you?

A. Well, I didn't find it suspicious that they had taken them. I just found it suspicious that we could not account for them.

Q. Ehab and Nagham, the Iraqi women who lived in house three and four, told you that at least two AK-47s weretaken from the house that day. Correct?

A. That is correct.

Q. At that point, you tended to believe they were taken. Correct?

A. Yes, I did believe that.

Q. So it was no longer suspicious that you couldn't account for them?

A. Well, I guess my question was, If the Marines seized these weapons, where are they right now?

Q. At that point when Nagham and Ehab, the Iraqi civilian women who lived in the house, confirmed that they were taken, did you any longer have a suspicion as to whether AK-47s were taken from that house?

Discovery 27 Jul 07 00181

A. No, there was no doubt in my mind.

Q. Because they wouldn't say it if it wasn't true. Right?

A. Well, why would they say if they didn't have -- they had nothing to hide when it comes to weapons in the house.

Q. Okay. Because the original question I asked you was did you find it odd or suspicious that Kahtan worked on the Jordanian border. Then we moved to the AK-47s. So now that we determined that was no longer suspicious on that day, let's go back to whether or not you thought it was suspicious that Kahtan worked on the Jordanian border. You didn't ask them any follow-up questions, did you?

A. Ehab and Nagham?

Q. Ehab specifically.

A. No, I did not ask her any follow-up questions.

Q. Didn't even ask her what he did?

A. No, I did not.

Q. Did you think that was important?

A. Well, in hindsight, yes, I would have liked to have asked that question.

Q. Because?

A. Well, there's several other questions I would have liked to have asked on that day. Those interviews were conducted outside of a secure environment. I was under a time crunch. One of the interviews was cut short due to small-arms fire. So looking back, you know, it would have been a pertinent question to ask what his occupation was on the Jordanian border, certainly.

Q. Lance Corporal Sharratt said in his statement, that you had read before you went to the house on the 28th and 29th, that he had encountered one man in the doorway. Correct?

A. I recall reading that, yes.

Q. And you found blood on the doorway?

A. Yes.

Q. Let's go back for one second. Did you go to house four looking for some sort of evidence of a massacre or an execution?

A. No, we did not.

Discovery 27 Jul 07 00182

Q. In the back of your mind, after having talked to these Iraqi witnesses, was it in the back of your mind -- or Agent Mannle talked to them -- was it in the back of your mind that perhaps that was an execution in this house?

A. No. Again, Agent Mannle conducted her interviews at the same time we were processing that bedroom. So we had no knowledge of the informations she was gaining through her interviews. We were there to process the scene. And that's what we were doing. We didn't find out until subsequent to us processing the scene the information that was obtained from those witnesses.

Q. Were you still at the scene?

A. No, we were not.

Q. So Agent Mannle was getting all this information about the group of men being marched over into that house. Then they heard gunshots. And she didn't share that information with you while you were at the scene?

A. Agent Mannle was still conducting her interview when we left to do our examination of houses one and two.

Q. And so she shared no information with you while you were at that house doing your forensic investigation about what these Iraqi civilians were alleging?

A. At the time we were processing the scene, no. I had no information of what she was gaining in the other room.

Q. There was blood inside the doorway. Correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And then do you remember that Lance Corporal Sharratt said that he engaged a second man standing close behind the first man in that room? Do you remember that?

A. I don't recall that exact verbiage in his statement.

Q. Well, when you went to do the forensic investigation, you certainly had  fresh in your mind his version of events?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. You found more blood near the closet, which was diagonal and across the room?

TC[Capt Hur]: Objection. The witness has stated previously that he observed stains consistent with blood. He doesn't actually have any direct knowledge that it was blood, sir.

Discovery 27 Jul 07 00183

IO: So you are saying a mischaracterization of the evidence?

TC[Capt Hur]: Yes, sir. Even though the rules of evidence don't necessarily apply in an Article 32, sir, his testimony is that it was stains.

CC[Mr. Culp]: Sir, I am willing to rephrase.

IO: It's just going to add more words to the transcript. What you suspected as blood is how I will interpret those phrases from this point on. We have covered some of this ground. I am going to allow you to loop, but I think we're on the third loop. So maybe get into some fresh ground, I would appreciate it.

Questions by Mr. Culp continued:

Q. The blood in that room was all over that room -- or what you thought was blood?

A. It was on the walls and in the closet.

Q. The walls and the closet were as far away from each other in that room as could be, weren't they?

A. Well, the closet was right up against the wall -- as far away as they could be?

Q. I'll rephrase. The closet was in the northwest corner of that room?

A. That is not correct.

Q. What corner of the room was it in?

A. The closet was up against the east wall of the room.

Q. And was it closer to the northern part of that room or the southern part of that room?

A. It was about equal between the two.

Q. And there was what you thought was bloodstain on the very farthest wall, the northern most wall, wasn't there? A. The north wall would be the wall immediately to the right as you enter the door. There was blood on that wall. That's correct.

Discovery 27 Jul 07 00184

Q. And that was the wall that was farthest away from the wall where the doorway was?

A. No, that is not correct.

Q. When you walk into the doorway, Agent Platt, what is the wall that is farthest away that you would look at directly?

A. That would be the west wall.

IO: Counsel, there are a series of diagrams which are Investigative Exhibit 71. Perhaps we could use that unless you have a different diagram. There are a whole bunch of diagrams.

CC[Mr. Culp]: Sir, in the brief given to you on page 64, there is a diagram. I would just like to hand him that diagram. It is in the brief.

IO: I don't have that in front of me.

TC[Maj Erickson]: What is the title of it?

CC[Mr. Culp]: Just page 64, house four firearms trajectory.

TC[Maj Erickson]: Page 17 of 38 on Exhibit 71.

IO: Okay.

CC[Mr. Culp]: Can I hand --

IO: Yes, you may hand it to the witness. It is page 17 of Exhibit 71.

Questions by Mr. Culp continued:

Q. Fair to say where the arrow is in the northern middle part of the page, pointing to the circle that says number 2, is the doorway?

A. That is correct.

Q. And there was blood on that doorway?

A. To the best of my recollection, yes.

Q. And if we go diagonal, on the southern most part of the page, it shows the wall, but it is flat, two dimensional. Do you see that, where the window is?

A. Yes, I do.

Discovery 27 Jul 07 00185

Q. And that portrays the wall in this courtroom. Correct?

A. Yes, it does.

Q. And there was blood on the southern most part of this wall -- and this wall being the southern most part of the room. Correct?

A. When you say it is the southern most part, sir, that is the southern wall.

Q. From the window, if you move to the right where the circle is around number four, there was blood on that wall?

A. Yes, that is correct.

Q. And there was blood in the closet marked by number six?

A. That is correct.

Q. Is this diagram accurate as you remember the room, Agent Platt?

A. Yes, it appears accurate.

Q. Fair to say that the wardrobe is quite a bit farther, close to this wall that's at the bottom of the page than it is to the wall at the top of the page?

A. According to the diagram, you could say that, yes. I remember there being a small gap.

Q. Here is my point: The blood wasn't all in one location. Correct?

A. That is correct.

Q. It was scattered around the room?

A. That is correct.

IO: Counsel, my copy doesn't have a number six on it. You are describing different things. If someone was to try to read that transcript, I don't think they would be able to figure that out.

CC[Mr. Culp]: Can we mark this as Defense Exhibit 55?

IO: You may. And that has the markings on it that you described?

CC[Mr. Culp]: Yes, sir.

IO: But your point of that was that there was blood on more than one wall. Correct?

Discovery 27 Jul 07 00186

CC[Mr. Culp]: Yes, sir.

IO: I got your point.

Questions by Mr. Culp continued:

Q. This lawyer that was present during your interviews, what did you know about that lawyer?

A. I knew he was representing a good portion of the families of the victims of the 19 November incident.

Q. Houses one and two, he represented those families?

A. I believe that's true.

Q. And what relevance, if any, did that have to you when you allowed him to be in both interviews?

A. The Iraqi lawyer was our conduit for setting up all the interviews in this case out in town.

Q. So you contacted the lawyer to conduct the interviews?

A. No. I contacted the civil affairs officer with the Marine Corps, who in turn would go to the Haditha bank, which was located inside the secure area of FOB Sparta. This individual, who I don't know his name, would go outside into the town of Haditha, notify the Iraqi lawyer that we would like to conduct some interviews.

The Iraqi lawyer would come to FOB Sparta, meet with the civil affairs officer. The civil affairs officer would notify the Iraqi lawyer who we wished to interview. And the Iraqi lawyer would get back to the civil affairs officer on which days these individuals would be made available for interview.

Q. Do you know what solatia payments are?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. And you knew on 29 March 2006 that solatia payments had already been made to families of houses one and two?

A. I do not believe on 29 March I was aware of that information. But at some point throughout the course of the investigation, yes, I was aware.

Q. And when you interrogated or interviewed people, do you try to make yourself aware of what motives they may have

to fabricate?

A. Of course.

Q. Did you know whether or not the people who lived in houses three and four had received any solatia payments at this time?

Discovery 27 Jul 07 00187

A. At the time I conducted the interviews of the two women in house four, I was not aware of any solatia payments being made to them.

Q. My question is: Did you think that they had not been paid at that point?

A. I was not aware of whether or not they had been paid.

Q. Did you ask whether or not they had been paid?

A. No, I did not.

Q. Though it would be important as regards to their motive to fabricate perhaps?

A. I wouldn't say that, no.

Q. You wouldn't say seeking solatia payments may affect their credibility?

A. I think the pain and suffering of their husbands being murdered literally right in front of them was more severe than the $1,500 that the United States government --

Q. So now we get to the issue, Agent Platt. Isn't it true that the reason you didn't go investigate why Kahtan was working on the border is because you thought there had been a murder? Isn't that true?

A. That is not true.

Q. You didn't think there had been a murder when you investigated on 29 March?

A. I knew individuals had been killed. I didn't know whether or not it was a murder.

Q. Well, on 6 April, when you decided not to ask about solatia payments, you thought there was a murder then. Right?

A. No, I did not.

Q. I thought you just said that the reason you thought that solatia payments couldn't affect their credibility is because they were upset about their family members being murdered?

A. I misspoke. I should have stated that they were upset with their family members being killed.

Q. Why did you use the word "murder?" Did you think there was a murder?

Discovery 27 Jul 07 00188

A. I misspoke.

Q. Let's talk about the accuracy of the log. You presumed that the log was accurate?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. Did anybody inform you that Corporal Stafford had been disciplined because he kept sloppy paperwork as the weapons accountability guy?

A. I was not aware of that, no.

Q. Did you ask anybody whether or not he had been disciplined for that?

A. I do not even know who Corporal Stafford is.

Q. So you wouldn't know he is the guy in the platoon responsible for maintaining the AK-47s at Firm Base Sparta?

A. I would not know that. The individuals that I dealt with were 3/3 Marines. They weren't even from 3/1.

Q. Were any weapons found in the search of houses three or four on 28 or 29 March?

A. Not to my knowledge, no.

Q. Did you ever have your interpreter talk to the father, Aiad?

A. No, I did not.

Q. At what point during your criminal investigation did Lance Corporal Sharratt no longer -- did he transform from just a person who may have conducted law of war violations to someone who may have committed murder?

A. Again, it wasn't my investigation. So at no time, and to this date, have I formed an opinion about what happened in this case. I am not aware of all the facts of this case. I was there to do specific interviews. So I had not formed an opinion.

Q. Are you related to this investigation now?

A. Of course.

Q. Is the investigation ongoing?

A. I have no idea what the current status of the investigation is.

Q. Given that now, today, in hindsight, you look back and

Discovery 27 Jul 07 00189

realize it may be a good idea to know who Kahtan is. You realize that today?

A. Well, I would like that question to be answered so that I wouldn't have to address it here today. But at the time I was doing it, I thought it wasn't my responsibility.

Q. Do you now recognize that it is your responsibility to talk to the case agent about the identity of Kahtan and who he may be?

A. No. Again, I performed the tasks I was asked to perform. And I documented the interviews that I conducted to the best of my ability. I did not know the information that the case agent had back in Washington D.C. So I feel like I did the best job I could have done. And I don't feel like I had a responsibility to say to the case agent, Hey, where are these Jordanian passports. To the best of my knowledge, that was being followed up on by somebody else. And it wasn't my responsibility unless they had specifically tasked me to follow up on the Jordanian passports.

CC[Mr. Culp]: Sir, I have no further questions.

IO: We're going to take a ten-minute recess.

The Article 32 investigation recessed at 0954, 12 June 2007.

The Article 32 investigation was called to order at 1006, 12 June

2007.

IO: The hearing will come to order.

EXAMINATION BY THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER

Questions by the investigating officer:

Q. Special Agent Platt, during your testimony, we talked about stains you believe are blood. Are you aware of whether those stain or samples you took were ever tested to see if they were blood?

A. I know they were tested.

Q. Did they test positive from blood?

A. From what I understand, yes.

Q. If I was to summarize your involvement with the

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investigation, other than having to testify, is you were an investigative lead to assist Agent Mannle in interviewing a couple of witnesses and preserving this scene?

A. That is accurate, yes.

Q. So you could be one of several agents that may have assisted Agent Mannle in her investigation?

A. That is correct.

Q. When you went to the home to -- what is the phrase you use when you were trying to collect photographs of the scene? You used a phrase.

A. I didn't write the scene examination report. So it wouldn't have been my phrase.

Q. You said you went to the home and you were conducting what? While Agent Mannle was doing interviews, you were doing what?

A. We were processing --

Q. Processing. Okay. When you were processing the scene, did you bring anyone who was present on 19 November to the home to tell you whether that home still looked in the same condition that it did in November?

A. I can't remember exactly. But I want to say the civil affairs officer was there. Again, I am not positive. That would be Major Hyatt.

Q. Do you know whether Major Hyatt was present on 19 November in that home?

A. I do not know. I know that the civil affairs officer had gone to houses one and two on one day. And it wasn't until several days later that he was made aware of houses three and four. I can't recall exactly whether he had visited that residence prior to us being there, no. I know that we did not have photographs from Major Hyatt of house four prior to us processing it.

Q. Did you know that at the time Sergeant Laughner had been to the home on 19 November after the events had occurred where people were shot?

A. I don't recall exactly when I was made aware of that. However, we did not have his photographs prior to going to that house. We had photographs that were taken by -- excuse me, I don't recall. It was a younger Marine, a lower ranking Marine, a PFC, I believe. I don't recall his name. If I heard it, I might remember it. But we

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had his photographs, and that was about it.

Q. So did you process the scene on the assumption that it had not changed in the three months since the incident occurred?

A. To be quite honest, we didn't know what to expect.

Q. Were there people still residing in the home when you arrived in March to process the scene?

A. Yes, they were.

Q. So is it possible that things could have been moved around and you wouldn't know it?

A. Certainly.

Q. You said you recovered two projectiles. You assumed one was a 5.56 and the other was a 9-millimeter fragment of a round?

A. The projectiles were actually in pretty good condition.

Q. They weren't just fragments?

A. They weren't just fragments.

Q. And your experience led you to believe they were approximate fragments that would come from those type of rounds?

A. Correct.

Q. How many 9-millimeter rounds did you find?

A. One.

Q. How many holes in the wall did you find that you believed corresponded to rounds being fired in the room?

A. I don't recall exactly. There was about five or six holes, including the hole in the window.

Q. And did you do any examination, or were you aware of any examination of the bodies found inside the room?

A. We were aware that the bodies had been examined at the Haditha hospital.

Q. Were you aware of how many entry wounds had been put in the bodies?

A. That wasn't documented. Basically, the reporting we had at the time -- and I don't know if it has changed since -- but it was basically, victim so and so, apparent gunshot wound to the head. That was about the extent.

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Q. So you did no reconciliation with how many entry wounds to the bodies, how many marks you found or holes you found in the room with how many rounds were reported to be fired?

A. No, we couldn't because we never had access to the bodies.

Q. Did the residents of house four and three cooperate with you in processing the scene?

A. Basically what happened when we arrived at the scene is the Marines cleared the house. They searched it. They secured the area. We entered, myself, Special Agent Maloney, and Special Agent Brady. We went directly to the bedroom as we had planned. The other residents of the house were put in the living room where Special Agent Mannle conducted an interview. I don't know who she interviewed or who was present.

Q. So your assumption is that the residents of the home agreed to this? It wasn't a forceable removal of the home in order for you to process the scene?

A. As far as I knew, they did not express any objection to our presence there.

Q. Approximately how much lead time did you have from when you wanted to process the home and when you actually got permission to go to the home and do it? Was it a two-day delay or did you have to wait a week?

A. Again, I arrived in Haditha on or around the 23rd.

Q. Of?

A. Of March. Lance Corporal Sharratt and the other Marines had -- I believe they were interviewed around the 18th or 19th. Gosh, I want to say it was -- we had two or three days lead time where we requested that the Marine Corps provide us a convoy to process the scenes. Arrangements were made to do that. We did not notify the families that we were coming out that day. That was contrary to the future interviews I conducted. We had to give prior notification, obviously, to ensure that they were present. But that day, they had no prior notification that we were coming.

Q. To the best of your knowledge, they didn't know you were coming to process the scene?

A. That is correct.

Q. When you interviewed the witnesses, did they sound

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rehearsed in their answers?

A. They did not.

Q. Did they sound confused in some of the questions you were asking at times?

A. I don't know if there was confusion with the questions, but there was obviously a language barrier that was creating somewhat a confusion.

Q. Was this a question and answer format of interview, or were they providing you a statement and you clarifying from their statement?

A. Pretty much when I walked in there initially, I was like, Okay, tell me what happened on that day. So it was open-ended.

Q. So they provided you a narrative, and then you followed up with questions?

A. That is correct.

Q. The interpreter you used, do you remember where you got that interpreter from or translator?

A. Yes. He went by the name Sam. I believe his true name was Sorri [ph]. I believe he was an interpreter employed by Titan Corporation, who supplies interpreters to the U.S. Government. He was the interpreter that was out there. And had been passed down from 3/1 to 3/3.

Q. Did you use any other media to record this interview, tape recorder or video?

A. No, I did not.

Q. I want to get this clear, Ehab told you she left house four before the bodies were removed; and Nagham said she stayed in house four until the bodies were removed?

A. Sir, I would have to review the statements to be absolutely clear. But one of them left prior to the bodies being removed. One of them was there throughout the duration of the entire evolution and the bodies being removed.

Q. The one that said they had stayed mentioned four additional Marines showing up to the home?

A. That is correct.

Q. Were you able to determine if one of those Marines happened to be Staff Sergeant Laughner and his security team that showed up to the homes to take photographs

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subsequent to the activities?

A. I'm personally not aware of that. But I'm sure Special Agent Mannle is aware.

Q. When you said that you thought it was suspicious that AK-47s were not logged in -- we had a lot of testimony about that. I am not trying to put words in your mouth. But was it suspicious that they disappeared or suspicious that you don't think they were ever taken?

A. There was no doubt in my mind that they were taken. From what I recall, both the Marines stated that they were taken, and the Iraqi families stated that they were taken. So I obviously believe they were in fact taken. I just didn't understand why we couldn't recover them and where they had gone.

Q. So your suspicion would be on improper handling of them by other people down the road or what happened to them?

A. That is correct. That would have been a pretty significant piece of evidence.

IO: Any follow-up, Captain Hur?

TC[Capt Hur]: Yes, sir.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

Questions by Captain Hur:

Q. Special Agent Platt, with regards to your interviews of Ehab and Nagham, how did you challenge the Iraqi witnesses' version of events as compared to what you  have been told by Special Agent Mannle that Lance Corporal Sharratt said?

A. Well, again, the way that those interviews were conducted, I basically went in and said, Tell me what happened. I didn't want to ask leading questions. I knew that we were already dealing with a language barrier as it was. And based on my experience in conducting interviews through an interpreter, I knew we were going to have problems with that. So I didn't want to ask any leading questions. I wanted her to explain to me in her words what she saw today.

Now, obviously, from time to time, I had to rein her back in because both women would jump way ahead. And there was gaps that needed to be filled about the exact time line of the events.

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But basically, I didn't challenge their version of the events, so to speak. I asked for their open-ended recollection of the events of that day. I asked follow-up questions based on that.

Q. So it was an open-ended interview similar to your open-ended interview with Lance Corporal Sharratt?

A. Well, the interview with Lance Corporal Sharratt was different in that we were asking him very specific questions off of a questionnaire that was provided to us. There was no follow-up questions to Lance Corporal Sharratt other than simple follow-up to the issues of training that were being discussed.

Q. But you didn't challenge any of the American version of events in your interviews with them?

A. No, I did not.

Q. Now, we discussed a little bit today how one of the Iraqi witnesses said that a group of four Marines showed up at the house after the relatives had already been killed. Based on what you now know about Staff Sergeant Laughner doing the site exploitation, could that have been him and his three Marines? Would that be consistent?

A. We certainly suspected that the passports that were supposedly removed from the residence ended up with the Human Exploitation Team. To the best of my knowledge, that was followed up on. And we were never able to recover them, Staff Sergeant Laughner being part of the Human Exploitation Team.

Q. Would you agree that it was not necessary for you to talk to Special Agent Mannle about every specific detail of your interviews with Ehab and Nagham because she had your reports to read?

A. That is accurate.

Q. Earlier today, Special Agent Platt, you said you misspoke when you used the word "murder." Why do you say that you misspoke?

A. Again, to date, I have not formed an opinion about this investigation. I do not have all the facts. There is no way I would have a basis for an opinion. When I used the term "murder," I meant to say that there was a killing. I should have said homicide or a killing. I had no reason to believe at that time that I did those interviews that there had been a murder.

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It was still very early on in the investigation. I should not have

used the term "murder."

Q. And before -- none of your interviews have you had a bias mind one way or the other as to whether Lance Corporal Sharratt is guilty of charges or not?

A. To this date, I still do not have an opinion about this investigation.

TC[Capt Hur]: That is all from the government. Thank you, sir.

IO: Mr. Culp?

RECROSS-EXAMINATION

Questions by Mr. Culp:

Q. You talked to Staff Sergeant Laughner?

A. I personally did not. I am familiar with his name and his role.

Q. It would have been a very important thing to know whether he had taken the suitcase from house four?

A. Right.

Q. And NCIS immediately followed up and asked him whether or not he had taken a suitcase from house four?

A. I don't know exactly when Staff Sergeant Laughner was interviewed, but I believe he was followed up with.

Q. And NCIS has ruled that out, that he took that suitcase?

A. I am not aware of that information.

Q. Were you aware that he testified yesterday that he didn't take the suitcase?

A. No, I was not aware.

Q. Let's talk about June 8 for just a second. June 8 is when you went and talked to Yusuf. Do you remember that day?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Yusuf told you that Marwan was employed as an engineer at the Haditha Water Station. Correct?

A. Yes, I believe he said that.

Q. On what day did you go to the Haditha water station to

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confirm that was true?

A. I did not go there.

Q. Do you have any knowledge as to whether or not anybody ever went there?

A. No, I do not.

Q. Did, at any time during your questioning of any of the females or Yusuf, did you learn that they had alleged -- one of these people had alleged that Marwan may have had a key person identification card issued by the CAG, Civil Affairs Group?

A. Yes. Yusuf made that in his statement. However, he also stated that he had never personally seen it.

Q. Did he say that it had never been issued or he had never seen it?

A. I don't recall exactly what his verbiage was, but I believe he stated that he had never seen it.

Q. At what point in the investigation did you learn that Najah said that Marwan tried to show the Marines his key person identification card issued by the civil affairs but they didn't want to see it? At what point did you learn that?

A. I am not aware of that.

Q. You are not aware of the allegation that Marwan tried to show a key person identification card to the Marines?

A. I don't recall ever being informed of that.

Q. At what point did you follow up and try to determine whether or not that Marwan indeed had a key persons identification card issued by the Civil Affairs Group?

A. We discussed that with the interpreter, Sam, and asked him what the process was for the issue of those identification cards. He informed us that early on in the process that Marines were not maintaining a log of who was issued those identification cards. So there was no way for us to follow up on whether or not Marwan had in fact been issued one.

Q. Because early on, they weren't logging very carefully? They weren't logging who had them very carefully?

A. That is correct. There was no log being maintained.

Q. Early on?

A. That is the way I understood it.

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Q. Was it your understanding that a log was being maintained at this time?

A. At the time that I was inquiring about the cards, yes, I believe they said they were now keeping the log.

Q. Was it your understanding that there was a log being maintained on or around 19 November 2005?

A. No. The way I understood it, there was not a log being kept at that time.

Q. And so this information you have, you got from the interpreter?

A. That is correct.

Q. And you never followed up to see if he was accurate or when the log started?

A. No, I did not.

Q. You never went to the log and to see whether or not Marwan actually had a key persons identification card?

A. No, I never did that.

Q. But you are aware that Major Hyatt did go look into the logbook with the very interpreter that was with you that day. Correct?

A. I am not aware of that, no.

Q. So you are not aware that Marwan's name is not in that book anymore?

A. I have no information about that.

CC[Mr. Culp]: Thank you.

EXAMINATION BY THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER

Questions by the investigating officer:

Q. There is one area I forgot to follow up on. I want to talk about the interview that you were a witness with Special Agent Mannle of Lance Corporal Sharratt on 24 March.

A. Okay.

Q. Your testimony was that you were investigating Lance Corporal Sharratt's knowledge of the rules of engagement and law of war?

A. I don't recall exactly. If I saw the statement, I would know.

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But I believe that we advised him of something in the nature of LOAC violations.

Q. Okay. Let me hand you Investigative Exhibit 45. You can keep that for reference as we're going through it. What do you mean by "Law of War" and "Rules of Engagement violations"?

A. Well, at the time we were there on this date, 24 March -- again, the details that we had of the actual incident that had occurred were very minimal. We had no evidence that brought us even close to the fact that this could be a murder investigation or a manslaughter investigation. So based on the Marine Corps's request that we get involved in this investigation and that they had informed us that they believe there may have been LOAC violations that have occurred, that is what the decision was made I believe by Special Agent Cranfield to that's what we were going to advise them of at that time.

Q. Okay. I am not so concerned with the advisement. I want to more focus on the questions asked. If the focus of those questions were to find out Lance Corporal Sharratt's understanding of Law and War and Rules of Engagement that were enforced on 19 November, how come you didn't ask him the question?

A. Well, these questions that were asked were provided specifically on a questionnaire that was provided by the United States Army.

Q. When I read that, that seems to me to be a questionnaire that would be used by lessons learned to find out if someone through their training thought they received proper training, not whether someone understood the Rules of Engagement and actually complied or the law of war. It sounds like you were doing a lessons learned question and answer format, which I would expect any Marine to answer when they come back, Did you think you had sufficient training? Is that what you were doing, asking whether you thought he had sufficient training? That's what those questions really go to.

A. Pretty much. Again, this was a questionnaire provided by the Army. They wanted to ask these questions themselves. Being that we had already -- I say "we" -- NCIS had already gotten involved in this investigation. And at this point, we had already spoken to Lance Corporal Sharratt and several of the other Marines already and had establish a rapport with them.

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We didn't want the Army to then come back and get involved in an administrative capacity. We didn't want there to be any confusion. So the compromise that was made was we agreed that we would ask these questions. And being that we were asking them in an official interview capacity, that is why we advised him of his rights.

Q. Because it is confusing to me that you would advise someone of their rights and essentially all your questions are what kind of training did you receive.

A. Right. These questions were very benign. There was no follow-up.

Q. And several of the responses were, No, I don't think I got sufficient understanding of this or that.

A. Right.

Q. And you just passed this on to the Army for their admin investigation?

A. That is correct. This interview that I participated in had absolutely nothing to do with your investigation whatsoever.

IO: That was my conclusion as well. Counsel have any follow-up with regard to Investigative Exhibit 45?

CC[Mr. Culp]: No, sir.

TC[Capt Hur]: No, sir.

IO: All right. Special Agent Platt, are you scheduled to leave the country or be out of the area in the next few months?

WIT[SA Platt]: No, sir. I will be in Washington D.C.

IO: So you believe you will be available to testify in any further proceedings if that is necessary?

WIT[SA Platt]: Yes.

The witness was excused from the proceedings.

IO: Do you want to get Special Agent Mannle on the phone?

TC[Maj Erickson]: Yes, sir.

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